MPS are preparing to debate a motion
calling for an inquiry into the
government's handling of the Iraq War
and its aftermath we joining us now one
of those MPS the respect parties's MP
George Galloway Mr Galloway thank you
very much indeed for joining us today uh
sitting in that chair well an hour or so
ago Dennis McShan was saying we don't
need another inquiry we've had inquiries
already all another inquiry would do is
secure lots of cheap political points
scoring what do you think of that well
in the famous words of manday rice Davis
he would say that wouldn't he because
he's one of the people whose conduct
would have to be investigated the entire
government is jointly and severally
responsible for a disaster a military
disaster of the kind suffered by
Napoleon at Moscow and uh and Hitler in
uh operation Barbarosa when he attacked
the Soviet Union a political disaster
the worst political disaster our country
has uh suffered for probably 100 years
since the boore war and with much more
significance so the stakes are very high
for people like Dennis mcshain to try
and cover their tracks until they can
get out of office uh unack as it were is
but isn't the great problem and and
people will appreciate that sweep of
History which you've just given us but
one of the defining characteristics of
those battles that you mentioned those
debar that you mentioned is that we've
had time to assess whether they did
anything good or did anything bad and
the problem here is and you had one
writing about this over the weekend that
you can look at something like the
Malayan emergency and recognize that it
took something like a decade for the
Brits to get themselves together to get
organized enough to learn how to deal
with an Insurgency it's only 3 or four
years three and a half years since March
2003 the Americans will say look we've
had successful elections 60% of Iraqis
turned out and voted that's as good as
say British general election there are
nightmarish scenes admittedly but some
in some areas it's going better than
some Ed I'm not sure what areas those
would be if I could go through a couple
if you like yes well for instance um
Sadam was saying when he used to be in
charge there were there were no free
television channels now 60% of Iraqis
have got satellite television you might
not think that's a good thing but
they've got a free press now for
instance they've got free elections
nobody's saying that things are life is
good in Iraq far from it but it's wrong
surely to paint the picture as
completely Bleak but
655,000 Iraqis have been killed
according to one report well according
to the John's Hopkins University one of
the most respected universities in the
United States of America and the Lancet
one of the most respected journals in
Britain you could take your pick whether
to believe Mr Blair's denial or John's
Hopkins and the Lan most people would
choose the latter I can assure you about
that thousands of our own soldiers
American and British have been killed
tens of thousands have been wounded and
maimed and our own soldiers are telling
you including the top Soldier is telling
you that our presence in Iraq is
exacerbating the situation we should get
out soon and that uh it has undoubtedly
contributed to uh a reality of danger
for British people and British interests
around the world and that's the
difference between uh this and the
Malayan emergency for example first of
all there were not more than half a
million people dead in the Malayan
emergency and secondly it did not have
the international ramifications which
This Disaster had has had it spread
extremism fanaticism hatred and
bitterness throughout the Muslim World
which is 1.7 billion strong and which
has 2 million uh adherence in our own
country that division that bitterness
has led to a situation where many people
are out to hurt us and out to damage us
and the consequences of our grave nobody
would deny elements of your analysis for
sure but let's just talk specifically
about the debate that we're going to see
in the Commons today Adam Price he's ped
C's defense spokesman he wrote in a
newspaper or was quoted in a newspaper
this morning as saying it's essential
for The credibility of our democracy
that we establish what combination of
deception delusion and inaptitude
carried us down this fateful path I
suspect you may well agree with those
words but that's not the point well let
me just finish the question which is
that no government's going to set up an
inquiry an impartial balanced inquiry
where the firing squad according to Mr
Price were already lined up well you say
that but the House of Commons once cl to
the challenge
and in the Norway in the Norway debate
when after 3 days uh people put the
country before the party the war effort
before the interests of the Prime
Minister Chamberlain was sacked uh
Churchill was installed all as a result
of a House of Commons debate and vote
and the whole history of the world was
changed I would not be here today if
that had not been done somebody else
would be here and you'd be speaking in
German and I'd be replying in German
that's how important the stakes were on
that day and the House of Commons Rose
to that now whether we have a parliament
today that would do that uh must be in
very great doubt and I'm not predicting
to you that the prime minister is going
to lose the vote but he's definitely
lost the argument and I suspect that you
know that most people in the country now
agree with me and that everything I said
about Iraq before the war has turned out
to be right and everything that Mr Blair
said about the war before it turned out
to be wrong except where it was
deliberately a lie I I don't know if you
can reach into your trouser pocket and
switch off your mobile phone if you've
got one it could be channel four trying
to get through to you about a who knows
a new offer of a reality show who there
you go um there are those who will say
what possible good would a public inqu
any kind of inquiry frankly achieve
because the Americans recognize they
made mistakes but they made them and
again this is what some people will say
they made them in good faith they sought
to adopt a model that they adopted after
the second world World War Den
nification they tried to strip out every
trace of baptism now we can all say that
was a disaster because of course that
meant dismantling the police force the
security apparatus the Army things that
ought to have been kept in place but
it's done it's happened it's gone what's
the good of pouring over the Embers now
when what many people need in Iraq is as
much support from the West
psychologically as well as militarily
and financially as they possibly can
muster well some might say that Mr Bush
acted in good faith but not many and not
many in the United States as you're
going to find out in 7 Days time where
the Republican Party looks set to be on
the end of the mother of all electoral
beatings so not many people accept that
the Bush Administration acted in good
faith not many even in the Republican
party anymore and Mr Blair continues to
stand on that Wicket but he has fewer
and fewer supporters less and less
enthusiastically the reality is we
should never have invaded and occupied
Iran
the basis for doing so was wholly wrong
except where it was deliberately
fraudulent there were no weapons of mass
destruction there was no link to
Al-Qaeda there was no connection to the
atrocity on 911 the world has not been
made safer terrorism has multiplied
rather than been uh squashed everything
that was predicted about the war by the
anti-war movement has turned out to be
right it's time to have an inquiry to
establish how such a gigantic blunder
would was made not just because we need
to change course on this but because we
have to avoid such a thing ever
happening again it's not asking too much
is it a seven man inquiry uh of privy
counselors to look at the blunders of
the worst policy disaster in a 100 years
it's not asking for very much let me
tell you somebody who's already made up
their mind without an inquiry that's the
veteran correspondent from the Middle
East Robert Fisk we had him here a
couple of weeks ago and he was saying so
far as he could tell he'd reached the
Bleak assessment many Iraqis and you
know Iraq well had decided that they
would actually prefer security and
dictatorship rather than freedom and
Anarchy now rightly or wrongly and I'm
merely reading comments that have been
reported in the past you have lavished
allegedly blandishments on saddam's
regime would you would do you think life
would be better now under that
dictatorship under that totalitarian
regime of Terror run by Saddam Hussein
well I have never lavished blandishments
on Saddam Hussein's regime in fact I was
one of the very few opponents of the
Saddam Hussein regime when British
ministers and business when British
businessmen and and and ministers were
going in and out of the Iraqi Embassy
doing business with them so I'm sorry I
just won't have that well it's you don't
need
to point the more important point is
whether or not Iraqis were better off
before the war than they are now only a
Madman would say that they're better off
now for a start 655,000 of them are no
longer here thousands and thousands
thousand and thousands of them are in
prison camps God knows where bodies are
turning up 150 a day in the Mory with
their tongues cut out and drill marks
through their head nobody can walk
safely on any Street in Iraq Millions
have fled the country the Americans have
looted billions of dollars worth of
Iraq's wealth the idea that Iraq is
better off today than it was before the
war is simply absurd so you would prefer
Iraq still to have I is it it's a simple
question yes or that's not the choice
you see that's not the choice that's not
the choice the idea that Iraq is better
off because of what bus and Blair did is
simply absurd it's you only have to look
at your own news broadcasts to see how
stupid a statement that is it's not a
statement it's a question it's a
reasonable question and it's it's long
we put to Rob you're the last people
asking it nobody else in the world is
asking it everybody knows this war is a
bloody disaster why don't you just
accept it because your station though
admittedly not as bad as the BBC was an
essential component of this invasion you
regurgitated endlessly the propaganda
I've got the videos if you want me to
show you them endlessly regurgitated the
propaganda and talked the country into
its worst disaster for 100 years so have
some humility and accept that you were
wrong it's not a question of humility Mr
Gallow it's a question of simply asking
simple questions I think most of our
viewers would have appreciated a
straightforward yes or thank you very
much indeed for your time interesting as
ever talking to you George Galloway in
central London thank you